So I found a manual for the Honda Express NC50 on the mopedriders.org site, which is great because I wanted to know what sort of oil I should put in the transmission case. The manual specs 10-W40.
Great, but hold on a sec. I had a vague memory of hearing that car and motorcycle oils are different. Further research revealed that this is very true. According to the stuff I read (totally credible...probably) motor oil for cars doesn't have to lube the transmission, just spinning engine parts. Motorcycle oil, on the other hand, lubricates the transmission as well as spinning engine parts. The motorcycle's clutch is getting bathed in this oil, and it has to grip when things are in gear to transfer power from the engine to the rear wheel. The motorcycle oil has to balance the slip with the grip. The stuff in cars just needs to be as slippery as possible, the transmission has its own separate fluid situation. It seems like putting automotive stuff in your bike would mess with your power transfer and probably make your bike slower.
If you read the comments on this article, I think some people have gotten into this situation. They said after they changed the oil on their Honda Express, it was slower. Most of them seemed to be using oil meant for cars (some even said they were putting in mobil1) and so they're probably getting some extra slip on the shoes in their centrifical spring clutch.
I mean, I think that's what's happening, I'm no expert mechanic, but I think I figured something out. I also realize that I bought a quart of the wrong stuff a few months back. At least I didn't put it in just yet.
...
Wait... I kept digging after I wrote this first part and saw something on the honda rebel forums that said car oil is fine as long as it doesn't have certain additives. I don't know how much I trust Honda rebel forums. First off, forums are not always super credible. Second, Honda rebels are lame bikes. Actually, I shouldn't really say anything. All I have is a non-running noped, but I still don't trust forums.
...
Okay, so after getting pretty nerdy and reading about wet and dry clutches and shearing viscous chains, I'm still going to use motorcycle oil instead of automotive oil because I think my clutch will slip less and lose less power.
Jan 9, 2017
Rear brake is good now!
Now the rear brake works!
Today, I pulled off exhaust so I could get the back wheel off so I could put in the new pads.
The exhaust studs are funky. One comes out of the engine completely. On the other one, the nut just comes off. They tighten down okay, so they'll hold the exhaust on, right? I hope so.
It was cool to see the back wheel off and I'm pleasantly surprised that I didn't really have to fight with any stuck parts to take it off. It was need to see that it's just a splined axle driving the rear wheel. Definitely a different setup than the bicycles I'm used to working on.
There are also a couple of kinda sketchy marks in the side of the hub. I'm not too worried but I'm going to try to keep an eye on them.
Looking at the old pads, they didn't seem bad at first, but then on further inspection, I noticed one of them had some grooviness to it so I guess it's not a bad plan to replace the pads.
So I wiped out dead spider pieces (I actually found crumbly bits of spider in there, no joke) gave the drums a light sanding, cleaned the drums with isopropyl alcohol and put in the new pads. The drum has 80.5mm stamped on the inside. The front one said the same thing if I recall correctly. It's nice that the 1981 Honda express nc50 uses the same shoes front and back. For those playing along at home, I put in Honda part number 06430-131-405.
I'm refining my technique with the springs. To pull them off I stuffed a screwdriver under the spring pointing up towards the middle of the upper brake pad and pried up and that popped the spring off the boss. Then I got the spring out of the slots with a pair of pliers. It's sounds really easy but there was some cursing and frustration. It did go easier than the front wheel, though. The pic below shows where I did the prying. I took it right after I popped the spring off the boss.
Getting the spring on the new shoes wasn't as hard as the front wheel was either. I put the shoes on the bike, then put the spring in the holes in the shoes and pried the shoes open (like when the brake lever gets pulled) and used the pliers to push the spring over the boss by clamping against the spring and the bottom shoe. I bet I'm not conveying this properly through words but I basically put the pliers around the spring and pads right next to the boss and squeezed the handles. At the same time opposite the boss I had a screwdriver wedging the pads open (opening the pads seems to give you more slack on the spring). Hopefully the pic below will help. If that still doesn't help, leave a comment and I'll try to figure out a better way to convey it to you. Or just leave a comment if it worked. I'm going be surprised if anyone leaves a comment actually.
After the brake work, I swapped out that spring for the correct one on the end of the choke cable (mentioned the other day) and I guess it's better. I mean, I don't think it's any worse. Below are the two different springs. The longer, thinner one is the one it was supposed to have in there.
While digging around, I found a strange mark on the transmission case. I wonder if it's something about the casting. At first I thought it was a plug for draining the fluid but there's already one right next to it. It's out of view in the picture, but I assure you it's there.
I also still have to go get some cotter pins. There's an empty hole on the back wheel that I know should really have one in there. For ya know, safety. So the wheel doesn't fall off. I do feel good about having the one used cotter pin on the front wheel though. I'd actually rather lose the back wheel than the front. Losing the front means probably going ass over teakettle and really bad things. Losing the rear wheel seems like there'd be skids and sparks and probably a good laugh after the shaking went away. I hope I keep both wheels on though, so cotter pins are on the shopping list.
I also cleaned up the dead spider bits and brake dust before my girlfriend got home so I look like a ninja mechanic. I'm already repairing my Honda express in the kitchen/living room, I don't want to mess up the good thing going on here.
Next on the list is lights/electrical. When my lovely girlfriend got home, she asked me if I thought I was 75% done and I hesitated. Every time I fix something, I find something new wrong with the bike, but I think I could agree with the bike being 75% ready to go around the block. It still needs a bunch of stuff, but if I can get some working lights on there and make sure it sparks and make sure I can make it stop running when I want, I'm going to be pretty stoked.
Today, I pulled off exhaust so I could get the back wheel off so I could put in the new pads.
The exhaust studs are funky. One comes out of the engine completely. On the other one, the nut just comes off. They tighten down okay, so they'll hold the exhaust on, right? I hope so.
It was cool to see the back wheel off and I'm pleasantly surprised that I didn't really have to fight with any stuck parts to take it off. It was need to see that it's just a splined axle driving the rear wheel. Definitely a different setup than the bicycles I'm used to working on.
There are also a couple of kinda sketchy marks in the side of the hub. I'm not too worried but I'm going to try to keep an eye on them.
Looking at the old pads, they didn't seem bad at first, but then on further inspection, I noticed one of them had some grooviness to it so I guess it's not a bad plan to replace the pads.
So I wiped out dead spider pieces (I actually found crumbly bits of spider in there, no joke) gave the drums a light sanding, cleaned the drums with isopropyl alcohol and put in the new pads. The drum has 80.5mm stamped on the inside. The front one said the same thing if I recall correctly. It's nice that the 1981 Honda express nc50 uses the same shoes front and back. For those playing along at home, I put in Honda part number 06430-131-405.
I'm refining my technique with the springs. To pull them off I stuffed a screwdriver under the spring pointing up towards the middle of the upper brake pad and pried up and that popped the spring off the boss. Then I got the spring out of the slots with a pair of pliers. It's sounds really easy but there was some cursing and frustration. It did go easier than the front wheel, though. The pic below shows where I did the prying. I took it right after I popped the spring off the boss.
Getting the spring on the new shoes wasn't as hard as the front wheel was either. I put the shoes on the bike, then put the spring in the holes in the shoes and pried the shoes open (like when the brake lever gets pulled) and used the pliers to push the spring over the boss by clamping against the spring and the bottom shoe. I bet I'm not conveying this properly through words but I basically put the pliers around the spring and pads right next to the boss and squeezed the handles. At the same time opposite the boss I had a screwdriver wedging the pads open (opening the pads seems to give you more slack on the spring). Hopefully the pic below will help. If that still doesn't help, leave a comment and I'll try to figure out a better way to convey it to you. Or just leave a comment if it worked. I'm going be surprised if anyone leaves a comment actually.
After the brake work, I swapped out that spring for the correct one on the end of the choke cable (mentioned the other day) and I guess it's better. I mean, I don't think it's any worse. Below are the two different springs. The longer, thinner one is the one it was supposed to have in there.
While digging around, I found a strange mark on the transmission case. I wonder if it's something about the casting. At first I thought it was a plug for draining the fluid but there's already one right next to it. It's out of view in the picture, but I assure you it's there.
I also still have to go get some cotter pins. There's an empty hole on the back wheel that I know should really have one in there. For ya know, safety. So the wheel doesn't fall off. I do feel good about having the one used cotter pin on the front wheel though. I'd actually rather lose the back wheel than the front. Losing the front means probably going ass over teakettle and really bad things. Losing the rear wheel seems like there'd be skids and sparks and probably a good laugh after the shaking went away. I hope I keep both wheels on though, so cotter pins are on the shopping list.
I also cleaned up the dead spider bits and brake dust before my girlfriend got home so I look like a ninja mechanic. I'm already repairing my Honda express in the kitchen/living room, I don't want to mess up the good thing going on here.
Next on the list is lights/electrical. When my lovely girlfriend got home, she asked me if I thought I was 75% done and I hesitated. Every time I fix something, I find something new wrong with the bike, but I think I could agree with the bike being 75% ready to go around the block. It still needs a bunch of stuff, but if I can get some working lights on there and make sure it sparks and make sure I can make it stop running when I want, I'm going to be pretty stoked.
I'll let you know how it goes.
In other slightly related news, I talked to a dude on an electric scooter with a Vermont plate the other day while stopped at a light on my bicycle. Apparently, that rumor that Vermont will register anything is true. I was excited to see it in real life and not just hear about it on a forum somewhere. I'm going to keep that as a backup plan if the NY DMV doesn't work out when I try to get this thing legit papers so as to be not riding dirty.
So the next phase is the electrical. I have a multi meter, a color wiring diagram (that black and white one is cruel) a regulator/rectifier, a headlight, taillight, a spool of wire, connectors and a soldering iron. Fingers crossed. If anyone read this far, wish me luck!
Jan 5, 2017
We Have a Working Font Brake!
The battle with the Honda Express NC-50 continues.
Now there are new pads inside the drum brake on the front wheel and I cobbled together a combination of new cable and old adjusters from the original (frozen) cable to make something that works... mostly. The end is held on with a knarp, so it's slightly sketchy, but I'm going to go with it.
The spring on the brake pads was the worst part. Getting the old spring out and the new one with the new pads was a huge pain. When I was looked the brake install up before, some people said they just used pliers, others said they put the spring on before the put the pads on the hub and others said they used a screwdriver to push the spring up over the post after it was already in the holes.
Reference pic:
I did it a little bit differently, I put the spring through the holes in each pad and got the pads on the post on the hub. I still needed to get the spring around the post. After using up my library of cuss words, I figured out I could get the spring closer to getting around the post if I opened the pads up by pushing on the brake arm. I put my big ole prying screwdriver, that I found in the street years ago, into the gap behind the brake arm thing and pushed the pads even further apart. I also angled the pads up off the hub a bit and used the handle of a screwdriver to push the spring over and onto the post.
That description makes it sound easier than it actually was and I left out all the cuss words so little kids can learn how to fix the mopeds they might or might not be able to legally ride.
The rest of the brake job was pretty straightforward. I cleaned all the junk out of the hub and even tried to sand it a bit. It didn't really clean up that well, but it seems to work okay when I test it with my hands. I hope these words aren't foreshadowing my death by under powered scooter.
I think I'll be fine though. I even cleaned the fresh pads with rubbing alcohol to make sure none of my filthy hand grease would compromise breaking power.
The most sketchy part of this repair is the brake cable. Apparently Honda uses sort of odd brake cables because the "universal" brake cable I ordered online did not have the girth or adjusters to work. I also ordered a "NOS honda express front brake cable" from that popular online auction site. It had the right cable ends and the right hardware, but this one was too short. Call me Goldilocks. Maybe I got one for an Urban Express NU50, an Express II NA50 or even an Express SR NX50
So I fabricobbled something together. I chopped up the old brake cable to get the adjuster I needed at the end of the cable, which was a challenge due to the highly rustified nature of the cable. Then I clipped the end off the not-so-universal brake cable so I could apply aforementioned hardware. Then I stuffed the whole melange of parts onto the bike and topped off the end with a knarp. It took a few adjustments to get the tension right, and the brake doesn't snap back all that nicely, but it does seem like it could stop the bike, as long as the knarp holds strong.
I'm still quite sketched out by the knarp, because the first couple of times I adjusted the brake, the cable slipped through the knarp. On the final adjust, I gave it some good crankage with the screwdriver and ratchet, but I'm still not totally confident. Hopefully it's one of those things that I'll worry about less and less as time goes on. Also, I hope it doesn't actually go wrong and try to kill me. I like to think that I'm pretty lucky though, so I'll probably be fine. Hey, I'm worrying less already!
The other thing I sort of fixed is the choke. It's now hooked up to it's rightful place on the handlebars using a grab bag of screws and washers. It doesn't seem to want to move around super nice, but I think it moves enough. The issue is probably having the wrong spring in where it goes into the carb. I had to disconnect it from the carb in order to get enough cable slack to let me hook stuff up on the bars. This involved taking a plunger slide thing off the end of the cable that held on a spring.
Now, I try to be careful while doing this stuff. I had my trusty, red lunch tray, from the school that I used to go to, nearby to hold parts and tools so they wouldn't get lost under the stove or couch (I'm working in my not tiny, but not huge, apartment's living room/kitchen area) and I was pretty sure all the stuff was going safely on my lunch tray. Slightly surprisingly, when it came time to put it all back together, I couldn't find the spring. I searched all over and found something that looked about right in my tin of spare screws and bits. It was kind of strange because I wouldn't want that sort of thing to go in that sort of tin. I shrugged like Mariah Carey and put the spring on the end of the choke cable and buttoned everything back up. While checking my work, I found that the lever wasn't really moving very smoothly. I chalked this up to the machine being a bit older and generally haggard.
Fast forward (does anyone even know what that means anymore or is that phrase too analog? I think I'm getting old) to this morning while I'm making some tea and I feel something underfoot. Nope, not a dried up piece of something cooked yesterday, but a wayward spring! Mystery solved! I'm astounded it wasn't eaten by the cat or lost forever underneath an appliance or piece of furniture.
So now, I have a bit of minor choke fiddling to do, and hopefully it'll operate a bit smoother, but probably not. After that, I plan to get some new pads in the rear wheel. Hopefully, the battle with the spring will be shorter and there will be no casualties. I do have a decent cable on the rear brake, so I've got that going for me.
Speaking of casualties, I have to remember to pick up a couple cotter pins for the wheel nuts. All the good mechanics say that you shouldn't reuse cotter pins and while I half ass a lot of things, having the wheels fall off is something I'd really love to avoid.
Now there are new pads inside the drum brake on the front wheel and I cobbled together a combination of new cable and old adjusters from the original (frozen) cable to make something that works... mostly. The end is held on with a knarp, so it's slightly sketchy, but I'm going to go with it.
The spring on the brake pads was the worst part. Getting the old spring out and the new one with the new pads was a huge pain. When I was looked the brake install up before, some people said they just used pliers, others said they put the spring on before the put the pads on the hub and others said they used a screwdriver to push the spring up over the post after it was already in the holes.
Reference pic:
I did it a little bit differently, I put the spring through the holes in each pad and got the pads on the post on the hub. I still needed to get the spring around the post. After using up my library of cuss words, I figured out I could get the spring closer to getting around the post if I opened the pads up by pushing on the brake arm. I put my big ole prying screwdriver, that I found in the street years ago, into the gap behind the brake arm thing and pushed the pads even further apart. I also angled the pads up off the hub a bit and used the handle of a screwdriver to push the spring over and onto the post.
That description makes it sound easier than it actually was and I left out all the cuss words so little kids can learn how to fix the mopeds they might or might not be able to legally ride.
The rest of the brake job was pretty straightforward. I cleaned all the junk out of the hub and even tried to sand it a bit. It didn't really clean up that well, but it seems to work okay when I test it with my hands. I hope these words aren't foreshadowing my death by under powered scooter.
I think I'll be fine though. I even cleaned the fresh pads with rubbing alcohol to make sure none of my filthy hand grease would compromise breaking power.
The most sketchy part of this repair is the brake cable. Apparently Honda uses sort of odd brake cables because the "universal" brake cable I ordered online did not have the girth or adjusters to work. I also ordered a "NOS honda express front brake cable" from that popular online auction site. It had the right cable ends and the right hardware, but this one was too short. Call me Goldilocks. Maybe I got one for an Urban Express NU50, an Express II NA50 or even an Express SR NX50
So I fabricobbled something together. I chopped up the old brake cable to get the adjuster I needed at the end of the cable, which was a challenge due to the highly rustified nature of the cable. Then I clipped the end off the not-so-universal brake cable so I could apply aforementioned hardware. Then I stuffed the whole melange of parts onto the bike and topped off the end with a knarp. It took a few adjustments to get the tension right, and the brake doesn't snap back all that nicely, but it does seem like it could stop the bike, as long as the knarp holds strong.
I'm still quite sketched out by the knarp, because the first couple of times I adjusted the brake, the cable slipped through the knarp. On the final adjust, I gave it some good crankage with the screwdriver and ratchet, but I'm still not totally confident. Hopefully it's one of those things that I'll worry about less and less as time goes on. Also, I hope it doesn't actually go wrong and try to kill me. I like to think that I'm pretty lucky though, so I'll probably be fine. Hey, I'm worrying less already!
The other thing I sort of fixed is the choke. It's now hooked up to it's rightful place on the handlebars using a grab bag of screws and washers. It doesn't seem to want to move around super nice, but I think it moves enough. The issue is probably having the wrong spring in where it goes into the carb. I had to disconnect it from the carb in order to get enough cable slack to let me hook stuff up on the bars. This involved taking a plunger slide thing off the end of the cable that held on a spring.
Now, I try to be careful while doing this stuff. I had my trusty, red lunch tray, from the school that I used to go to, nearby to hold parts and tools so they wouldn't get lost under the stove or couch (I'm working in my not tiny, but not huge, apartment's living room/kitchen area) and I was pretty sure all the stuff was going safely on my lunch tray. Slightly surprisingly, when it came time to put it all back together, I couldn't find the spring. I searched all over and found something that looked about right in my tin of spare screws and bits. It was kind of strange because I wouldn't want that sort of thing to go in that sort of tin. I shrugged like Mariah Carey and put the spring on the end of the choke cable and buttoned everything back up. While checking my work, I found that the lever wasn't really moving very smoothly. I chalked this up to the machine being a bit older and generally haggard.
Fast forward (does anyone even know what that means anymore or is that phrase too analog? I think I'm getting old) to this morning while I'm making some tea and I feel something underfoot. Nope, not a dried up piece of something cooked yesterday, but a wayward spring! Mystery solved! I'm astounded it wasn't eaten by the cat or lost forever underneath an appliance or piece of furniture.
So now, I have a bit of minor choke fiddling to do, and hopefully it'll operate a bit smoother, but probably not. After that, I plan to get some new pads in the rear wheel. Hopefully, the battle with the spring will be shorter and there will be no casualties. I do have a decent cable on the rear brake, so I've got that going for me.
Speaking of casualties, I have to remember to pick up a couple cotter pins for the wheel nuts. All the good mechanics say that you shouldn't reuse cotter pins and while I half ass a lot of things, having the wheels fall off is something I'd really love to avoid.
Jan 4, 2017
Well, Here We Are
I love things with wheels, especially bikes. I love to work on them. This blog is where I'm going to record what I do to my bikes. If you follow along hopefully you can laugh with me and learn a thing or two, or at least laugh at me.
My current project is something new for me because I have only worked on pedal bikes up to this point. I bought a moped... noped... scooter thing on craigslist. It's a 1980 Honda Express NC-50. A little 50cc 2 stroke scooter. When I bought it, the ad made it sound like it didn't need much work to get going, but I should have known otherwise because, ya know, craigslist.
I got a rolling heap and a grain sack of parts. At least it was cheap.
Every time I fix one thing on it, I find something new wrong with it. The piston rings fell out in pieces when I went in to put a new head gasket. When I went to clean the carb, I found aluminum shavings in the reeds. The carb was also missing a bunch of stuff too. In hindsight, it might have been better to buy a new carb. The oil injector was also missing parts. The muffler had some horrible weld job and couldn't be attached to the bike. The gas tank was full of rust and while cleaning it, I found that the window to look at the oil level leaked. It had the wrong spark plug installed. The brakes did slightly more than nothing. But it was cheap, and I wanted a project with a motor, so here we are.
So far, things I've done:
new piston rings
new cylinder and head gasket
cleaned and adjusted (correctly?) the points
new ignition coil and condenser
new spark plug and wire
added the missing parts to the carb
hooked up throttle (it didn't come with a cable)
mostly cleaned and patched the tank
sourced and installed the missing oil injection parts
ran gas/oil lines with filters
puchased and installed an exhaust/gasket
Things I need to do:
run wiring (the old wiring harnesss was melted together by someone's welding)
put in new brake pads front and rear
hook up the front brake with a new cable
put on front and rear lights
hook up the choke
Get a Helmet (it's the law here)
Things I should probably do:
New tires/tubes
Register/insure the bike
Make the turn signals work
Change the fluid in the case thing where the centrifugal clutch lives
Make the seat less likely to fall off/fall apart
Things that concern me:
crank/piston pin/bearings
piston ring size
The wind up starter. Some honda express models use this wind up rachet mechanism instead of a kickstarter and they are known to fail. I'm quite sure some jerk on the street
Where am I going to store this thing?
Is anyone going to buy this from me when I want to get something bigger/better?
I didn't put in that oil seal when I put the new rings on... I think I should do that.
Spark plug boot and wire are very chewed up because of a previous roommate's cat.
How much I've spent on parts, part of me wants to know, most of me is scared to know
Things that don't concern me:
Speedometer, I don't think this thing is going to go fast enough for that to matter. Hell, it doesn't go at all right now.
Haggard paint
Lack of fenders
Running this thing without a battery
the lack of key ignition situation (it's not like I just don't have a key, it's that there's no place I could put one if I did have one)
I've got a lot of work to go and this should be interesting so come back for more. Maybe subscribe or something. Shout out to all the Honda Express riders out there!
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